3

I've been using the 10k Core Anki set to practice and it seems very well-vetted and written. However it translates 「ティッシュを取ってください」 as "Please pass me a tissue" whereas I would have expected "Please take a tissue." Deepl.com also produced "Please pass me a tissue." Is this typical? Could it be used in other scenarios as well?

Eddie Kal
  • 11,469
  • 5
  • 20
  • 41
ineedham
  • 175
  • 1
  • 4

1 Answers1

1

As you may already know Japanese has a lot of peculiar nuances. In this case it's somewhat contextual.

If you are out of reach of a box of tissue and you are asking someone to pass you a tissue then there is an implication that you would like a tissue. Therefore the sentence "ティッシュを取ってください" is more akin to "Can you pick up a tissue [for me]?".

On the other hand if you are gesturing and holding a box of tissue in front of someone the same sentence could also literally mean "Please take a tissue" as you rightly guessed.

Regarding it's usage in other scenarios perhaps it makes more sense to look at the root sentence "ティッシュを取り出す". Here we can make note that "取る" signifies the action of pulling/picking a tissue out of the box.

Therefore you can use "取る" to refer to any action that involves plucking or picking up something. For example "引き出しからフォークを取ってください" (Please take a fork from the drawer).

However if an object is simply being passed to you it would be strange to use "取る", instead we would use the term "渡す" (watasu - To hand over). For example "鉛筆を渡してください" (Please pass [me] a pencil).

It is possible to completely omit the action and simply say "ティッシュをください" (Please give me a tissue). This would make more sense in the context of a restaurant where you may not physically see them retrieve the tissue.

As a rule of thumb "取る" is generally used when a container of some sort is involved, but confusingly it can also be used to pick things up from a table, shelf, etc. For new learners trying to navigate casual conversation it may be useful to omit these action descriptions that often have to be memorized.

chocolate
  • 65,531
  • 5
  • 99
  • 204
Thomas Ham
  • 26
  • 2
  • 2
    「鉛筆を渡してください」って言われたら「えっ、誰に？」ってなるような気がするんですが…「鉛筆貸して」とかのほうがよく使わないですかね？ – chocolate Jul 16 '21 at 03:15
  • その可能性はあるかもしれないけどそこまで勘が鈍い人は珍しくないですか？

    ちなみに「鉛筆貸して」は"Can you lend me a pencil?"に翻訳されますが"Can you pass me a pencil"の場合は「鉛筆を渡して？」のほうが正しいと思います。

    @Chocolate has pointed out that in casual conversation you are more likely to say some form of "鉛筆を貸してください" (Can I borrow a pencil?). Which is true but in the case of the above example I am just demonstrating that you cannot use "取る" in every circumstance.

     – Thomas Ham Jul 16 '21 at 04:10
  • 3
    私もそこは少し違和感を覚えました。話し手自身が受け取る側の場合は、例えば、相手が鉛筆を握りしめて手放そうとしないような状況で、よっぽど「渡す」という行為自体に焦点がある時以外は、「鉛筆を渡してください」とは言わない気がします。 – aguijonazo Jul 16 '21 at 06:52
  • 「貸す」はどう見ても違う感じします。もちろん誰かから鉛筆を借りる場合であれば「貸す」を使いますがそのあたりにある鉛筆を渡してもらう場合は「渡す」を使うべきではないですか？例えば別の例だと「そこの財布を渡してください」と言いますが「そこの財布を貸してください」は不思議な構造だと思います。 – Thomas Ham Jul 16 '21 at 11:25
  • 2
    相手が持ってるものを「よこす」意味で、「貸す」は使われるんですよ、日常的に。例えば「ちょっとそれ貸して。」"Give me that." "Give it here." って。「ちょっとそれ渡して。」とは言わないです。「ちょっとその財布貸して。」って、"Give me that wallet", "Let me have a look at that wallet" みたいな意味で使えますね。そのあたりにある鉛筆を渡してもらう場合は「そこの鉛筆取って。」、相手が手に持っている鉛筆を自分に渡してほしい場合は「その鉛筆貸して。」でいいですよ。 – chocolate Jul 16 '21 at 12:53
  • 1
    この「貸す」はこんな感じです：https://enjoylifenglish.com/2021/06/21/%E3%80%90750%E3%80%91%E3%80%8C%E3%81%A1%E3%82%87%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A8%E3%81%8B%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%94%E3%82%89%E3%82%93%E3%80%82give-it-here-%E3%80%8D/ / https://lineblog.me/emarosalazka/archives/1234358.html / https://livedoor.sp.blogimg.jp/hisapri/imgs/6/5/655cf9f7.jpg / https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/pupuco-gtrqfmgg/imgs/d/1/d14031a3.png　いずれも、人から物を「借りる」わけではないです。 – chocolate Jul 16 '21 at 13:51
  • いやぁ。。それはちょっと攻撃的な読み方じゃないですか？「ちょっと、それ渡して。」は普通に日常会話でつかいますがとりあえずこの点について諦めます – Thomas Ham Jul 16 '21 at 13:56
  • 1
    @Chocolate Not entirely relevant to the point you're making but you should be careful with phrases like "Give me that" and "Give it here". They sound rather aggressive (or condescending, depending on the context). Much more than I think ちょっとそれ貸して sounds. To conclude from these comments, is it fair to say that 貸す is used if the person has hold of it, 取る is used if they don't, and 渡す is not used at all? Or is that oversimplifying it? – user3856370 Jul 16 '21 at 15:38
  • 2
    @user3856370, そうなんですか、ありがとうございます。So "Give me that / Give it here" are not good translations for ちょっと貸して, but I can't find a better translation. Regarding the latter half of your comment, yes, 貸して is used if the person has hold of it, eg (何かを手に持っているor使っている人に)「ちょっと貸して。」, and 取って is used if they don't, eg 「(机の上の)リモコン取って。」「(すぐそこにある)新聞取って。」（←聞き手の結構近くにある場合。離れてるときは「取ってきて」って言う。）. 渡して is usually used to mean "Hand it to someone (other than me)" (← This is why I said 「えっ、誰に？」ってなるような... If you said 鉛筆を渡してください out of the blue I'd respond えっ、誰に?) – chocolate Jul 20 '21 at 05:04
  • @Chocolate, your comments here are (as always) very illuminating; like Thomas Ham, I would have thought 渡す would be fine in this context. Thanks for setting me straight! Based on your explanation, I think a good translation for ちょっと貸して would be "Could you hand me that?" or "Could you hand that to me?" Those are both informal without being rude. (There are some situations in which "give me that" and "give it here" might be OK, but in most contexts they would sound insultingly brusque, as user3856370 noted. "Could/would you please give/hand me that?" would be fine, though.) – Nanigashi Jan 24 '22 at 23:22